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<TITLE>RE: [Full-Disclosure] [OFFTOPIC] Zone Alarm</TITLE>
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<P><FONT SIZE=2>As I started this one - can I put a stop to it...</FONT>
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<P><FONT SIZE=2>What was it I read the other day, if you call someone a Nazi then officially that's the end of the thread...</FONT>
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<P><FONT SIZE=2>Okay I'm going to call me, ben@twowaytv.co.uk, erstwhile postee in html, user of Windows 2000 (and BSD and Linux and Solaris, before you start), sending email via Exchange which attaches a crappy disclaimer - a complete and utter Nazi....</FONT></P>
<P><FONT SIZE=2>Yes I've done it - I've called someone a Nazi.... so now we have to start a new thread and post at least 3 bits of useful information before we can revert to abuse, slander, mis-reading of posts, mis-understanding of posts, not trying to hear what the person is saying in voice- rather than just reading the words and generally taking our stress out on everyone else (who for the most parts should be our allies)..</FONT></P>
<P><FONT SIZE=2>What I've learnt is.... </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>ZA is okay for homeusers - there are no desperately obvious holes.</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>There are other alternatives - I use one of the others at home (not that you care) - but the person who asked the question of me (who is fairly technical), is probably doing the best he can.</FONT></P>
<P><FONT SIZE=2>The negative comments I have seen, viz :- (snip from some or other list) <<zone alarm (which contrary to popular belief is not a real firewall and a joke in the IT community as a whole)>> is empty posturing as usual, but then the same goes for everything else (there are a lot of "experts" out there...)</FONT></P>
<P><FONT SIZE=2>May your evenings (days, morning or nights - depending on your timezone) be blessed with happyness...</FONT>
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<P><FONT SIZE=2>Personally I'm going home to get a beer or two....</FONT>
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<P><FONT SIZE=2>-----Original Message-----</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>From: JT [<A HREF="mailto:ptourvi1@twcny.rr.com">mailto:ptourvi1@twcny.rr.com</A>]</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>Sent: 05 June 2003 16:13</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>To: 'Shawn McMahon'; full-disclosure@lists.netsys.com</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>Subject: RE: [Full-Disclosure] [OFFTOPIC] Zone Alarm</FONT>
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<P><FONT SIZE=2>This is a lame basis for your argument. You provide 2 </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>vulnerabilities that</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>are old. Everything has vulnerabilities, I will not waste my </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>time search ZA</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>for one, it's in there, it's a proven statistic. Now, explain to me how</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>having one of your uninformed users make a decision for every </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>app that wants</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>to access the internet is better than plugging a router in and </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>being done</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>for the most part. Which is easier? Right, the router is easier </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>because they</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>just plug it in and go. You would have us believe that these </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>"inept" users</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>WITHOUT ANY computer person are going to be smart enough to </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>FIND zone alarm,</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>INSTALL it, CONFIGURE it, and then decide each time anything </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>wants to hit</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>the net. Please, spend 30 more seconds and show me some CURRENT</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>vulnerabilities. </FONT>
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<P><FONT SIZE=2>-----Original Message-----</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>From: full-disclosure-admin@lists.netsys.com</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>[<A HREF="mailto:full-disclosure-admin@lists.netsys.com">mailto:full-disclosure-admin@lists.netsys.com</A>] On Behalf Of </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>Shawn McMahon</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>Sent: Thursday, June 05, 2003 9:23 AM</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>To: full-disclosure@lists.netsys.com</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>Subject: Re: [Full-Disclosure] [OFFTOPIC] Zone Alarm</FONT>
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<P><FONT SIZE=2>On Wed, Jun 04, 2003 at 08:35:05PM -0700, morning_wood said:</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>> </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>> Theres nowhere for the packets to go.. and please, when was </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>the last time</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>> anyone here had to flash a personal style router / switch</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>> within the past 2 years... dont go esoteric on us now..</FONT>
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<P><FONT SIZE=2>Perhaps you should read security bulletins more often.</FONT>
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<P><FONT SIZE=2><A HREF="http://www.idefense.com/advisory/10.31.02a.txt" TARGET="_blank">http://www.idefense.com/advisory/10.31.02a.txt</A></FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2><A HREF="http://www.opennet.ru/base/netsoft/993631863_204.txt.html" TARGET="_blank">http://www.opennet.ru/base/netsoft/993631863_204.txt.html</A></FONT>
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<P><FONT SIZE=2>That's just two. Should I spend another 30 seconds searching and get</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>you some more?</FONT>
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<P><FONT SIZE=2>Or are you going to argue that Linksys and Netgear are "esoteric"?</FONT>
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<P><FONT SIZE=2>-- </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>Shawn McMahon | Let every nation know, whether it wishes us </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>well or ill,</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>EIV Consulting | that we shall pay any price, bear any </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>burden, meet any</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>UNIX and Linux | hardship, support any friend, oppose any </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>foe, to assure</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2><A HREF="http://www.eiv.com|" TARGET="_blank">http://www.eiv.com|</A> the survival and the success of liberty. - JFK</FONT>
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